Gungrave Fans: Theories

[gynocrat]

Since no one opened a theories thread and I am a Gungrave doujikaki [writer of doujinshi] I thought I'd toss out some completely cracktastic theories and ask some of you to try the same or comment on what's given. This is for hardcore Nightow otaku only-so if I come off as completely weird…good, I’m supposed to!

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;D Ok?

SUBJECT: Superior Lee.

THEORY: Superior Lee is not Balladbird Lee.

SUCK THE HOOKAH AND SPEAK:

There are many things indicating that Superior Lee is not Balladbird Lee. First indicator-his 'not knowing' Brandon Heat! In the '5 Years Later' segment, not only is it quite clear he and Bob are part of Harry's team-but they are somewhat friendly with one another [their drive to the graves with Heat and Harry, and even in the final eps extra piece where they are all in Harry's office making big plans]. Now in the episode Remorse, Superior Lee talks to Mika as if he never met Brandon Heat - 'The Big told me all about him...'

Indicator 2: Lee was the smiling bro. You know, the 'Relax or I'm going to kill you' type of guy who normally watched over you or bossed you around with a smile on his face. From 'Five Years Later' to the Episode 'Family', he was always cordially cocky. Even as he got more ruthless by the episode 'Kind' he still had his sense of humor; my Lord, even when he commandeered Bunji to kill Randy he smiled at what a brilliant plan maker he was... Superior Lee- no emotions at all. Zilch. He only lived to make Harry happy or sought his approval in some way-and the only pleasure he allowed himself was killing weaklings.

Indicator 3: Lee thought everything of Bob Poundmax. This was his best friend. He gave his body to science to save him - yet Superior Lee so easily allows Bob to fight Grave knowing Bob is no match for him. Bizarre.

ALTERNATIVE THOUGHTS:
I don't know what happened to Lee. Perhaps he's still soaking in SEED somewhere - put aside because of his perfect condition by Dr. Rags who made something damn near close to him in everyway shape and form...only Superior-with enhanced loyalty to Harry and only Harry.

As Bunji Kugashira might say 'You ask me, you ain't Balladbird Lee...'

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[gynocrat]

Well thanks to this post I've become a 3-Star NERD. YAY!!!!!

;D ;D
Crat

[HX]

That makes a lot of sense G. It does seem odd how he seems to forget about Brandon. But maybe he let Bob fight Grave because he thought Bob could honestly win, that a Superior could handle anything, though Bob wasn't a true Superior.

[gynocrat]

hx said:

That makes a lot of sense G. It does seem odd how he seems to forget about Brandon. But maybe he let Bob fight Grave because he thought Bob could honestly win, that a Superior could handle anything, though Bob wasn't a true Superior.

But he saw what Grave was capable of from the get-go. Even when he set him up he knew Grave would plow right through the orgmen and step right on up. He even knew Bob didn't have control- I mean, the loss of composure at the board meeting, and even Bob's own gaff away from [fake]Lee when he was with Bear.

It was all so impersonal. Yeah-technically Bob wasn't anything but an ugly version of Buu from DBZ joined to Baron Harkonnan from Dune. (>_>)

[drcube]

Your right that is weird but five years is a long time somethign else could of happened that changed his emotions. In 5 years practially anything possible. The weird thing is how he lets bob fight him alone and than freaks out when bob dies if you ask me I think he thought Bob could've taken grave

[gynocrat]

drcube said:

Your right that is weird but five years is a long time somethign else could of happened that changed his emotions. In 5 years practially anything possible. The weird thing is how he lets bob fight him alone and than freaks out when bob dies if you ask me I think he thought Bob could've taken grave

Five years is not long enough to forget a man you kill people with. This is the syndicate, remember? And this is Brandon Heat- who's cleaned up with everything that they've thrown at him so far...how would Lee be so careless- he wouldn't.

Takeda's script suggests Superior enhanced are prone to 'memory' losses and 'reality' shifts - but seriously, it's just shabby.

;D
Gynocrat

[drcube]

You're right but maybe he thought the superior was unbeatable He wouldn't let his best friend take a fight alone if he didn't think he would win the way he freaked out when he died prooves he thought he would win

[gynocrat]

True. I still have my doubts though, and am sticking by my theory. ^_^

[discoman]

Well I think the Superior process might affect the character's personality. They always seem so damn blood thristy and crazed in the latter episodes. The only one who really didn't was Bunji, but he only became superior to have a fair fight with Grave and did not shapeshift. I tihnk the transformation makes the person have a double mind, one is that of the Superior and that of the normal mode.

[drcube]

why did bunji not return to the organazation did the superior process make him feel guilty or something I mean he was starving himself instead of going back anyone have a theory on why he would choose running away over eating

[gynocrat]

But even in moments of 'calm' or clarity Lee just wasn't Lee. In the car with Bear and Harry as they were leaving he was completely complacent to Bear. And the conversation with Mika- doesn't explain why he didn't know a thing about 'Brandon'.

one is that of the Superior and that of the normal mode.

[bunjithewolf]

whoa... wait it wasn't 5 years, it was more like 14 years one look at harry (old bastard) and 2 look at mika, she was 14 making it 14 years (or just about) since Brandon died. anyway 14 years is enough to forget details about someone (favorite color, favorite tv show, favorite drug etc...) Also Lee became more ruthless to become stronger, don't ask why but Harry is like his hero, because all he was trying to do was model himself after Harry, making sure that nothing would hold him back from reaching the top, only emotional weakness was Bob he unconvential undesireable lover.
Besides of course Lee wouldn't know too much about Brandon they were never buddys, it was always Bunji and brandon or Harry bunji and Brandon, when it came to bob and Lee it was usually those two with Bunji and/or Harry. Besides brandon talked about as much as Hellen keller (bad joke but relative to the point).
Lees favorite things to do
1.Kill people/ torture them
2. Kiss Harrys ass
3.Love Bob
Oh yeah and am I the only one who thinks Lee's death was racist... He was more than obviously chinese, and he died on traintracks... and Bob dead give away on racism although true in most cases, he was fat, blonde and blue eyed the typical American. and bear walken, he was wesely snipes incarnate, Black, uses swords and loves them asains.

[gynocrat]

First things first. I've had two posts deleted, and some dudes on here thinking I'm getting 'emo' on them which is just down right insulting. Spare me, Crat doesn't go Emo over gun anime.

I find that when I speak to any of you guys anymore on this forum I'm made to feel like I'm yelling at you and you all take what I say to heart. I'm not your girlfriend, I'm not your sister, I'm not your mom, and I'm not that girl in class who is trying to make you feel like sh*t. Please mellow out ok, I'm a fan just like you are.

bunjithewolf said:

whoa... wait it wasn't 5 years,.

Please re-read my post. I never said it was five years in regard to Brandon's passing. I SAID in the 'scene' 5 Years' it was apparent all four men were rather close. If that wasn't meant for me, forget it.

I'm sorry-Lee spent his career in the 'know', he knew everything about everyone-yet suddenly he had no clue of what Brandon Heat was all about? He had to 'be told by the Big Guy' about Brandon's losing Maria? Come on. Lee was almost alien at that point-I am more apt to agree with the Superior-induced Schizophrenia theory stated elsewhere on this thread than Lee simply losing details over a span of a decade.

Also, -->emotional weakness was Bob he unconvential undesireable lover. What a load of crap. Just because men are close friends doesn't mean they f*ck, get real. Try hemming their relationship up to your racist theory instead; here you have Lee, obviously ethnic, getting close to a WASP like Bob, which is obviously more acceptable in Billion than just being 'Balkan' Lee. Again, this was Lee's early days MO, using people to get ahead.

Oh yeah and am I the only one who thinks Lee's death was racist... He was more than obviously chinese, and he died on traintracks...

As for Lee's death scene, Lee died beautifully over-dramatic and tragic like all Yakuza deaths are supposed to be. I personally don't equate the Chinese with building railroad tracks any more than Koroda-sensei could have when he wrote the script. It's well documented that most Japanese are not fond of the Chinese overall but you're misplacing Occidental concepts of bigotry within the dogma of Oriental racism.

Not a rant, not a bitch-slap, just some counterpoints, please don't be offended.

Gynocrat

[bunjithewolf]

^_^ ahh when older people get angry it just brings glee to my expressionless face, but now as i sit here scratching my head I wonder why am I such an HADOKEN!?
So ok maybe Lee and Bob aren't lovers, it serves as a nice joke at a dinner party though, more importantly Lee doesn't seem to be one to get emotionally attached, the guy did kill attempt to kill his brother, although he did fail he follows the man that did kill him. I guess I really can't argue any more beyond this point, the best way to prove your alein theory would be if he was missing his nose and he suddenly became in love with little boys, (yet another joke) seriously though the characters from both game and anime are similar yet different its kinda funny. Lee said one line in the game and had a whole speech set in the anime. Maybe its just a plot hole or.... maybe the superior process which is the orgman process on a living being, caused something to happen which can prove (EDIT) THE (EDIT) alien theory. SEED is an alein product spread by guys like Garino and Harry, but its purpose was to help the aliens multiply. So maybe an alein being was growing inside of the superiors but never got the chance to mature but slowly ate away at its host something similar to that of a parasite.

[gynocrat]

the best way to prove your alein theory

I have no idea what you're talking about, I said nothing about aliens. If you're refering to someone else's theory- I didn't see that one. Your Lee and Bob joke was funny, I laughed-I cried-I threw up.

Also, I'm not old-but if bringing that up makes your feel better, more power to you. ;D

Geeze, I thought discussion was possible with guys, but I see some of you are just as flighty as female fan brats.

I'd rather have more a discussion with you about your racial issues with the anime than alt theories though- that is, if you'd be willing to discuss it without being insulting.

-Gynocrat

[bunjithewolf]

sorry sorry sorry, Its become a bit of a natrual part of my personality the alien thing follows through with a theory I had, when I heard something in overdose Garino talking about an exchange, the ability to travel the stars if he would spread SEED (you could say its a drug form of their DNA) this also comes from an Anime I've fallen for called SoulTaker where a drug is used to turn people into mutants (later revealed Aleins) to increase the population of that particular dying race. And any theory I have just pops up in my head at random (kinda like the one I posted about grave turning into a negative image of his former self)

Brandon: white skin black hair (black hair heavy sinner, he was a hit man he killed for a profession)
Grave: Lightly tanned skin, gray hair (somewhat atoning for sins by being somewhat truer to himself and fighting against what he wants to prevent the death of the daughter of his loved ones and making the attempt to stop his heavy sinned friend.)
Grave (dying again) Dark tan skin with snow white hair
I've heard that snow is something completely pure because its a pure untainted color of white completely in its natrual state. Meaning Grave finally returned to who he once was before everything.
(This is not necessarily for you but for anyone else who didn't understand what I meant)

[Discoman44]

After watching GunGrave on DVd, I've noticed Bob say around episode 15 "Lee, you know Brandon. Do you think he could have betrayed the orginization?". Also I've noticed in the episode before it When Randy's men get killed, one holds a character that reads "666".

[gynocrat]

When Randy's men get killed, one holds a character that reads "666".

Well there you have it... The Devil Wrote Gungrave!!

[Random Guy]

Lee was suppressing his emotions and simply went insane.

[discoman]

I think it has to do with the process of becoming a superior. Lee didn't seem to recall certain facts and just didn't seem to be himself. As Bob states "Lee, You know Brandon, do you think he could have betrayed the orginization?". But when talking to Mica Lee states, "The boss told me that your mother and him were head over heels for each other". But wait! If Lee knew Brandon he would have known that, right?
My theroy is that Superiorization causes memory loss and perhaps reprogramming of the mind. Bob also seems to have once suffered from the same thing Brandon does after being revived, "I tell ya those functional disorders can be a real b!itch." That means that he once had memory lose. When Bob pleads for his life he can notice that the superiorization has weared off atleast for a moment. After all he sounds like his old self "Hey Brandon" then he struggles his eyes turn red and he attacks Brandon. Remember Superiors are Orgmen with their own thought and Orgmen are programmed to serve Millenion. Perhaps Harry didn't want anyone to "betray" him like what happend in the past.
During Bear's and Graves fight, Bear also doesn't seem like his self. He seems very aggresive and makes cracks. This is unlike his cool and serious nature. The only one that seems the Same is Bunji, but perhaps the process was perfected by then, allowing him to have all his memories and what not.